This episode of The Cultural hall has been “in the cue” for a while. We recorded it right before last General Conference and I sat on publishing it for a while. I don’t know why. I shared the message with a few people and got a pretty interesting response that made me unusre as to whether I should publish it.
The other thought on delaying this episode is I didn’t want it to get lost in the flurry of media that was “hyping” the Ordain Women. I hope that you enjoy this episode of The Cultural Hall.
The Cultural Hall-(Richie T)
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Thanks for sharing this. Before listening I had some pretty strong feelings about what I thought those involved in this movement were saying. I was pleasantly surprised by the way they are forming their request for “prayerful consideration” by the brethren. I had assumed that most involved were inactive “haters” but these women are not that. Thanks for sharing their perspective. However, I do still feel like those who think a woman needs to be ordained to obtain equality don’t fully understand the divine nature of women and our roles in the priesthood and the plan of salvation. I had the privilege to hear Sheri Dew speak on this topic at the Time Out for Women session last October. She is an eloquent and intelligent speaker – here’s a link to part of our remarks:
http://youtu.be/dUI79EdDH9E
What you don’t hear in this clip, is prior to this she points out that you have to fully understand who we are as women and how does the Lord feel about the women of the church. That he loves us with an incomprehensible love. Also she makes a point that men have to be ordained to enter the temple, but women do not. Here’s another link to her closing remarks on the topic, beautifully articulated:
http://youtu.be/qOHwRuTGfMs
I like your statement AmandaRee. I agree.
As soon as the servants of God get revelation from God, I will accept it.
I can’t help but feel that 32 year old woman in this is not married and probably has been through a lot of abuse or similar experiences in the church. She sounded very bitter. It also sounded like these women were not seeking to be ordained but seeking equality. I especially agree with Amanda in this comment ” However, I do still feel like those who think a woman needs to be ordained to obtain equality don’t fully understand the divine nature of women and our roles in the priesthood and the plan of salvation.”
I liked both the comments by Amanda and Jeremy. I understand the request for “prayerful consideration”, and as I listened it sounded like even if the Brethren prayed about it and came back with the answer “No, it doesn’t need to be practiced now, maybe in the millennium.” (Kind of like polygamy) that the group would still feel/think that is unacceptable or discriminatory answer. When the accounts of Joseph Smith ordaining women was mentioned I had mixed feelings. I have mixed feelings about using accounts from the beginning of the church because it’s easy to justify a lot of actions that modern revaluation has clarified. For example it could be said that we should go back to using wine for sacrament now that the church could make it’s own and wouldn’t have to worry about bad men tainting the wine (D&C 27:2-3). Or it is okay to use tobacco because most of the Apostles chewed and the Law of health wasn’t a commandment when it was given, but more of a guide to healthy living. And over time culture/society and leadership have made it a commandment. I see the parallels between that argument and the Ordain Women argument about women being ordained by Joseph Smith. That being said if the Prophet said women could be ordained I would accept it and seek my own spiritual confirmation, if it didn’t come immediately.
I also like that Jeremy hinted at equality doesn’t mean equal. For example now that we have racial equality minorities have more scholarship opportunities then those they wanted to be equal with. I don’t know that the Priesthood is something that should or should not be used to measure being equal. However I don’t think it is a measure of equality. For me it would be like saying Heavenly Mother should be our God and our Eldest Sister should be Our Savior. I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened that way but it doesn’t seem like the plan.
Thank You Ordain Women Group for your honest and thoughtful answers to the questions and explaining the genuine want to Act in God’s name. Thank you for doing the interview Richie it was great to hear a different perspective and to be able to share my two cents here.
Interesting episode. I don’t agree one bit with the ideas put forward by the ordain women dot org people, but interesting none the less. The guests seem to have their hearts in the right place, and I’m glad they are asking the bretheren to consider, rather than taking a more aggressive tack, but I don’t see happening any time soon, and I hope they temper their desires with much patience.
I think where their opinions break down is seeing the priesthood being akin to suffrage. Their train of logic that the priesthood rested with the Levites, then the gentiles, then all men, so therefore all people *must* be next seems very much like the discussion about the right to vote in a democratic society. I’m not saying it won’t ever happen. Someday women may be extended the priesthood. I’m just pointing out that because the church has never been (and never will be) a democracy, the train of thought presented on the podcast is not logical.
I’ll have to listen. When I read the material on their website there seemed to be a more demanding tone. Maybe they are changing their method.
I have no problem with someone asking for their church leaders to make an inquiry of the Lord.
I’m late in replying to this, but what I took away from the podcast was that these women don’t seem to fully grasp the way the Priesthood works. Faithful women can access that power simply by praying and asking the Lord for his help when they need it, and they can share in it with their husbands once they’ve been sealed. We don’t NEED to be ordained in order to use it when necessary. If we have access to an ordained member, we should always seek that first, but if not, we can do it with the Lord’s help. Women are not unequal to men in the Gospel, but we have different roles to play. If anything, the deck is stacked in OUR favor, not the mens’. We all share in our Father’s power, the men with the Priesthood and the women with the ability to bear children, and the only benchmark He judges us by is how well we used that power to serve Him.
I think the argument that women during Joseph Smith’s time frequently gave blessings, and the permission to do that was changed… similar to black people having been ordained during Joseph Smith’s time, and now they are allowed. It makes sense that women can have the priesthood; the term priestess comes to mind.
I also was encouraged by the logical clarification that priesthood is often considered the male role and motherhood the female role – and yet this cannot be correct. Fatherhood is the true equivalent to motherhood.
I can truly see the ordination of women to the priesthood as a future revelation and progression of the church and I Iook forward to it.